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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:32 pm 
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I don't want to start a political debate, but I think knowing things like this happen is important for Americans to know.

it's black and white surveillance footage, but I'd still call it graphic.

http://collateralmurder.com/

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:10 pm 
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not start a political debate? How can you not. Side A backs the guy in the helicopter who thought he saw guns and rpgs, side B goes with the people who just see human beings carrying cameras being shot...

ready..

/FIGHT!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:41 pm 
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I wonder if Daymos did any of that stuff while he was in the marines. I don't see our paladin doing anything heinous. :cry:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:14 pm 
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Fine. I can understand an honest mistake of what is a direct threat to them in the sky and what's happening on the ground, and it's hard to see in the video. What bothers me is after the first barrage specifically killing the wounded who no longer pose any threat, and more, opening fire on the van that arrives to help the wounded guy.

Maybe I don't understand rules of engagement, but I don't understand how you can get clearance to open fire on unidentified individuals who pose no thread who are trying to help the injured (there wasn't even mention that anybody in/around the van had any sort of firearm, just that they may pick up what was left on the ground.) It's urban conflict, It seems more likely that they were good samaritans than anything else.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:15 pm 
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I'm not going to talk much on this, but it seems to be a double edged sword. They thought the guy was a threat and in thinking that, they tried to eliminate the threat. When others came to his aid, to me, it seems like (to the American Soldiers) that they were helping a terrorist and wanted to take out the accomplices. It is very hard to tell that there were kids in the car. Unfortunately, that's war for you, sad on every aspect.

It's very sad to say, but it's happened to MANY countries on this.. and now on the Iraqies (sp) wrong place, wrong time D: and it's very devastating, my heart goes out to the kids who lost their dad. Nothing else for me to really say

*end my thought*

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:45 am 
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Maiyu wrote:
I'm not going to talk much on this, but it seems to be a double edged sword. They thought the guy was a threat and in thinking that, they tried to eliminate the threat. When others came to his aid, to me, it seems like (to the American Soldiers) that they were helping a terrorist and wanted to take out the accomplices. It is very hard to tell that there were kids in the car. Unfortunately, that's war for you, sad on every aspect.

It's very sad to say, but it's happened to MANY countries on this.. and now on the Iraqies (sp) wrong place, wrong time D: and it's very devastating, my heart goes out to the kids who lost their dad. Nothing else for me to really say

*end my thought*


Maybe it's just me but if I was an insurgent with an RPG, I'd shoot the helicopter circling in the air before it shot us.

That and their laughing/joking around really did it for me. "Support the troops, not the war" is a good thing to carry around but sometimes you see some really bad eggs.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:47 am 
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To answer Derz, na I never had to go to war.. thank god :shock:

I generally didn't fit in, I joined the Marines because I flunked out of college, had no job, my parents were PISSED, and my girlfriend was heavily in debt with the intelligence of a stick. I was depressed and hated myself thus I thought joining the military would impress everyone and make me into this super disciplined and confident guy. When I got out it was like getting out of jail. I was extremely excited to be FREE, I wanted nothing to do with any organizations (churches, governments, unions, I don't want anyone to make decisions for me.. ever) and I very much liked being alone (and all that stuff still applies). It changed me in the fact that I appreciate the simple things in life more and no longer have this desire/need to be somebody important, just want to be left alone and be my weird self.

In terms of the topic, war is a tradegy. Created by men in suits playing chess with humans, and the good guys aren't always 'good' guys, this pilot or his pals there might fall into the 'blood thirsty killer' section of the military, some guys are nuts... "The military rules, where else can you legally shoot motherf'ers!" Go watch the movie jarhead, that's a pretty accurate description of military life I'd say, my squad leader was pretty much Jamie Foxx in that movie (slightly less intelligent acting. a squad is 1/3 of a platoon in the marines). Alot of people just don't want to be there though, went in to get money for college or learn a job skill and are now part of something they don't really believe in. I always thought it was a little strange that once you get into the military you can't get out, you change your mind.. too bad we'll throw you in the brig if you try to leave! :?


edit- jarhead = marine corps life, suppose I should clarify. I was in the infantry (rifleman/foot soldier), big difference as to what your job is. black hawk down is good too

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:20 am 
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btw this is on cnn.com now, a little more information:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/04/ ... tml?hpt=C1

Long article, bet we're going to be hearing about this quite alot in the near future.

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